I think it is more "culture" than "heritage" ...along with binge drinking, teenage pregnancy and getting arrested on holiday. It doesn't mean we should keep that too.

I disagree; AFAICR the roots of the modern game begun in England - making today's game as much part of our heritage as any other worthy invention (the light bulb, locomotion etc).

Furthermore, binge drinking is equally a part of our heritage - it's nothing new - we've always been a nation of drinkers, it's only of late it has been demonised so.

The "crime" of "Teenage pregnancy" is also another recent invention to encourage finger pointing - it was 12 years old in 1275 - which (according to wiki) lasted till the 1800's....

As for getting arrested on holiday, only the most naive of fools would believe other nationals don't get arrested when visiting other nations.

Which I think is what LU was getting at, as a link to what he said in another thread...

Part of our heritage or not it's disgusting behaviour and we're the only European country that behaves so badly.

We are not alone. The Dutch, Polish, German, French and Italian football supporters have a horrifying reputation for football violence to name a few.

Complete and utter codsh1t.

Russian football armies are vast, Turkish fans are frighteningly violent & Spanish fans are revolting racists... I could go on but I shouldn't have to - we are judging our own because that's what gets reported in our press. But you need only spend 5mins surfing to uncover football-related violence affects every nation that plays it.

So does that then mean we ban Football? Of course not - as Jon has pointed out - it's only a catalyst.

To scapegoat football for the failings of society is so fundamentally flawed an argument I'm at pains to understand why I should have to spell it out here.

I was thinking more along the lines of football violence, binge drinking and how we behave abroad not just football violence. Am sure there are plenty of violent football yobs in other countries. It just seems that we're loosing what made Britain great and becoming more of a yob culture. It breaks my heart to see stabbings, murders and violence against animals and kids in the papers EVERY day

I do agree banning football won't work. The yobs would just congregate somewhere else.

People forget, it took some pretty barbaric, unexcusable actions to get Britain to that rose-tinted greatness in the first place.

Works for me

Finally, someone sees the link...

Do people still go to watch football? How last century is that?

People can still afford to go and watch football? How last century is that?

Of course, that is where the fans go to fight. It's the only sport I know of that has to segregate fans from different teams because they just can't be trusted.

Actually, it's the only sport where they are required to do so by law, even though it's no longer really necessary. The Taylor Report after the HIllsbrough tragedy did an awful lot of good, introducing a lot of measures which effectively eradicated violence inside football stadiums in England. In general, it just doesn't happen any more - the game on Tuesday night is the first event of major disorder inside a football stadium in, well, years. However it also introduced two measures which, while important at the time, are now pretty much irrelevant and incongruous.

1) Segregation of fans. To be honest it's never been perfect - there were always away fans in the home areas but, these days, they behave well and get/give no trouble. if they're particularly rowdy, the stewards remove them and stick them in the designated away fans area. No problem. Nevertheless, at football matches, the hosts are still required by law to institute segregation between the groups of fans. If you watch a modern premiership game, thats usually done by covering a couple of rows of seats with some sort of mesh. It really would be no impediment at all if a fan really wanted to get to the opposition's fans but they work because the fans aren't interested in a ruckus, they're interested in the football. They're like the telescopic ribbon barriers you get that 'enforce' snake queues. The fact is pretty much anyone could just go through them if they wanted to but they work because the vast majority of people aren't idiots.

2) Alcohol bans. You can buy and drink alcohol within a premiership ground while a game is going on but you will be breaking the law if you take that alcohol to a point where you can see the pitch. This is plainly a ludicrous law. You can get utterly bladdered in the areas under the stand if you like and then walk up a single flight of steps to your seat but you can't carry a plastic glass full of beer up that flight of steps. It doesn't stop or save anything but it does mean that in a lot of grounds, fans miss the start of the second half because they can't go back to their seat until they've finished their drink. It's even more fatuous if you're in a hospitality suite. 99% of hospitality suites have what are more or less patio doors out to a row of seats in the ground. if the club want to serve wine or beer with the food before of after the game, they have to draw a curtain across the door to the stand while they do so. As if a bunch of people in suits - because generally you wear a suit if you're a 'corporate guest' - are going to try and invade the pitch from half way up a stand after a glass of wine? It's bizarre.

There is effectively little segregation enforced at football grounds any more. Nor is there (for example) any real measures to stop fans invading the pitch. That's because that kind of stuff is needed in general at one game at one stadium every five years of in total about 30 games a year hosted at 48 stadiums every year (work out the ratio if you like). It is not at all justified to call football fans violent people and football matches are entirely safe. You're actually less likely to be attacked in a football stadium than you are walking down the street. Just because one group of nutters goes mental once every 5 years doesn't give anyone the right to brand the nearly one million people who attend football matches every week as violent hooligans.

I'm sorry, it's just not on. It's no better than saying all Liverpudlians are thieves or all Scots are drunks or any of that. It's simple prejudice. And, if you don't mind, it really is beneath you Gav, I know you're smarter than that.

Jon