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Lord Mandelson 'wanted EU foreign job' 
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Linux_User wrote:
Like it or lump it "I think/bet he's an X" is defamation, you are undermining someone's character without evidence.


That just can't possibly be illegal. Stating an opinion does not undermine someone's character; that's simply untrue. If it was so, then no one could ever question anything. I can't believe British law could possibly be so anti free speech. If it is, then something has gone monstrously wrong.

Additionally, there have been far worse defamatory comments made in this news forum against certain professional people, none of which have been censored. There have even been repeated incitements to extreme violence, which is surely illegal. None of those were censored.

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Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:21 pm
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JJW009 wrote:
Linux_User wrote:
Like it or lump it "I think/bet he's an X" is defamation, you are undermining someone's character without evidence.


That just can't possibly be illegal. Stating an opinion does not undermine someone's character; that's simply untrue. If it was so, then no one could ever question anything. I can't believe British law could possibly be so anti free speech. If it is, then something has gone monstrously wrong.

Additionally, there have been far worse defamatory comments made in this news forum against certain professional people, none of which have been censored. There have even been repeated incitements to extreme violence, which is surely illegal. None of those were censored.


It really depends. To call a politician a bastard/[LIFTED]/other expletive etc because they're proposing something you really dislike is one thing. To suggest they mess about with children is quite another.

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Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:33 pm
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Linux_User wrote:
It really depends. To call a politician a bastard/[LIFTED]/other expletive etc because they're proposing something you really dislike is one thing. To suggest they mess about with children is quite another.

Nobody said "Mandleson is a kiddy-fiddler" or "He's a child molester" or "He rapes children". Nobody accused him of anything illegal. They simply pondered his sexual preference.

If I say "I think Linux_user is a heterosexual male", I am not implying that you rape women. Of course, there are some deluded people who think all men are rapists. Those people are wrong.

The defamatory comments I was referring to were those which questioned certain professional's competence. That's very different to flippantly saying "He's a pillock" or "I bet he's a nonce" whatever.

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Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:43 pm
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JJW009 wrote:
Linux_User wrote:
It really depends. To call a politician a bastard/[LIFTED]/other expletive etc because they're proposing something you really dislike is one thing. To suggest they mess about with children is quite another.

Nobody said "Mandleson is a kiddy-fiddler" or "He's a child molester" or "He rapes children". Nobody accused him of anything illegal. They simply pondered his sexual preference.


Paedophilia is a sexual preference..? Paedophile was the specific term used, not homosexual. Peter Mandelson is openly homosexual - so no issue would have arisen there.

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Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:46 pm
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Linux_User wrote:
Paedophilia is a sexual preference..?

Yes. It means a sexual attraction to children.

Sexual attraction does not automatically lead to rape. If PM quite fancies little boys, but doesn't act on that attraction, then he's not breaking the law. We do not have "thought crime" quite yet.

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Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:59 pm
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JJW009 wrote:
Linux_User wrote:
Paedophilia is a sexual preference..?

Yes. It means a sexual attraction to children.

Sexual attraction does not automatically lead to rape. If PM quite fancies little boys, but doesn't act on that attraction, then he's not breaking the law. We do not have "thought crime" quite yet.


Tell that to readers of the Sun. I see what you're saying, but the implication was completely unfounded and at best controversial, at worst liable to attract a hefty settlement.

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Sat Dec 05, 2009 1:03 pm
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Linux_User wrote:
Tell that to readers of the Sun. I see what you're saying, but the implication was completely unfounded and at best controversial, at worst liable to attract a hefty settlement.

I maintain that it was far less likely to attract litigation than many other comments that have gone uncensored.

I've found some people's comments so distasteful that I've despaired for the human race. If I highlighted every defamatory comment or those that incite hatred, my post-count would shoot up by over 9000.
However, I would not dream of censoring them. I may not agree with their comments, but I'd defend with quite strong words their right to express them. Better men than me have died for it.

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Sat Dec 05, 2009 1:17 pm
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Yeah but forums are weird places, they tend to attract many comments that may only flash through a person's mind much like ones you have in a pub at about 11pm.

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Sat Dec 05, 2009 1:48 pm
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adidan wrote:
Yeah but forums are weird places, they tend to attract many comments that may only flash through a person's mind much like ones you have in a pub at about 11pm.


+1, which sees rule-making and enforcement all the more difficult :oops: :?

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Sat Dec 05, 2009 2:09 pm
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JJW009 wrote:
If I highlighted every defamatory comment or those that incite hatred, my post-count would shoot up by over 9000.

Perhaps I should start today. Since I posted that, we've already had:

rustybucket wrote:
I wish she [Hazel Blears] would sod off.

She's a lying New Labour accolyte and I hope she goes away very quickly.


I always thought Acolytes were a marvellous team of super heroes, so I don't understand that. However, stating that someone is a liar is a pretty serious allegation. In politics, your entire career depends on people believing what you say. If everyone believes you're lying, then your career is over.

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Sat Dec 05, 2009 2:20 pm
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One man's lie is another man's truth.

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Sat Dec 05, 2009 2:51 pm
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spoon.

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Sat Dec 05, 2009 2:58 pm
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JJW009 wrote:
spoon.

:D

For the record, I only spoon with my GF. ;)

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Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:03 pm
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The initial comment I made was deliberately controversial, but I wasn't drunk, I was at work, I thought long and hard about posting it, I rewrote it a few times, and as I stated afterwards it was merely a statement of how much I dislike and distrust in fact hate Peter Mandelson and everything he stands for. I wish there was something stronger I could say than comparing him to a paedophile as he is far worse than that.

Of course I am totally against censorship, but in this case I can accept, if not like or agree with, the reasons for it on this forum to protect the people who own from legal action by people who can afford to pay and indeed control the law.

Furthermore linux_user I think you are an interfering busybody, I liken you to Hyacinth Bucket, I really don't think it was on you to report my post you're not a mod, admin or site owner, if you don't like it, don't read it or report it. If you're going to take a moral stand pick someone worthy of your support.

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Sat Dec 05, 2009 11:45 pm
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LaptopAcidXperience wrote:
The initial comment I made was deliberately controversial, but I wasn't drunk, I was at work, I thought long and hard about posting it, I rewrote it a few times, and as I stated afterwards it was merely a statement of how much I dislike and distrust in fact hate Peter Mandelson and everything he stands for. I wish there was something stronger I could say than comparing him to a paedophile as he is far worse than that.

Of course I am totally against censorship, but in this case I can accept, if not like or agree with, the reasons for it on this forum to protect the people who own from legal action by people who can afford to pay and indeed control the law.

Furthermore linux_user I think you are an interfering busybody, I liken you to Hyacinth Bucket, I really don't think it was on you to report my post you're not a mod, admin or site owner, if you don't like it, don't read it or report it. If you're going to take a moral stand pick someone worthy of your support.


Thanks but no thanks on the 'advice' there. I have no desire to see Saspro in Court defending a libel writ and I reported the post on that basis. I stand by my decision and I will continue to report posts that I think cross the line into libel - which is very rare I have to say. I may not be a "mod, admin or site owner" but much like the Police they can't act if they don't know. At the end of the day if a mod/admin didn't agree with me the post would not have been edited. Simples.

If you have a problem with that then that's your prerogative, I'm certainly not going to lose any sleep over it.

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Sat Dec 05, 2009 11:56 pm
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