A Conservative Party member talking about morals....



.... BANG!




.... Anybody got any plasters?? My hypocrite detector just exploded.

Kids aren't any worse nowadays, all of what happens now has happened before.

People generally remember the past as being better because they were both younger with a different view on life, with different information at hand, and because our memories are very selective no matter how much we hate to admit it.

What is termed 'street culture' used to be called 'gangs' when I was younger and, believe me, bad things happened then too, I have the scars to show it.

The problem is parents falling through the gaps in social care, their children suffering because of it and, occasionally, going on to make other children suffer.

All parents should attend parenting classes, for the basics, and all families should have contact with social services in the early period of a child's life to make sure they can cope and to make sure the child is being cared for. Social Services also need to be supported, problems generally arise because the workforce is too small and undervalued. Spending money early in a person's life may help to save money further down the line with less crime being committed.

This isn't interference, it's fulfilling the State responsibility to new citizens who are not, as yet, capable of protecting themselves.

Well, that's my opinion anyways. The likelihood of it happening is, well, improbable.

Whilst I can understand the sentiment, I would prefer to learn from parents and my peers. As a society, we have many, many problems right now. We, as a society, need to act. Not the government.

I agree with what you're saying but I find it ridiculous that children can end up being charged for crimes from the age of 10.

I know what happened was horrendous, but the parents should be held more accountable, I mean the kids were 10 and 11 when they did what they did. How on earth did they get to that situation? They didn't even show any remorse in court, they haven't been in an environment that has enabled them to comprehend what that is or to know what is right and wrong.

Yes, children should learn from parents and peers but when parents fail then the State must step in and that means paying more social workers to deal with less cases and stop these families slipping through the net.

We let down those attacked but we also let down those kids who attacked them.

Difficult isn't it? I agree on who was let down. It's just that the answers aren't easy. I suppose if people can't think for themselves, somebody has to think for them. It's just that's a slippery slope...

On your point about the prevalence of commone sense (which I would believe to be a rose tinted veiw of history); my dad was born in 1968 and at his highschool his mate brought in a vial of mercury which they smashed and messed with for a bit, his mate's mate made a bomb which they set off under a feild, when in the first year of his high school the 5th years had a "war" with another high school that involved taking the javelins and discesses from the P.E closet, in metal work they made throwing stars out of them as was the pop culture at the time and I have probably forgot a few more.


"Common Sense" is, was or will be thinly spread; for each person believes themselves so well endowed with it that none seek to learn more, and I would be more likely to refer to it as uncommon sense in some cases and in others subjective rhetoric.





Right on the money there.

Being 17 I have learnt to understand the same thing however through the tutorage of my dad with my mum and later my mum with her now partner of what not to do fiscally. My dad has the same doctrine as above again nowadays, and I firmly believe the same also.

Current 2nd richest man William .E. Buffet describes usage of financing through loans: " If you’re smart you don't need 'em and if you're dumb you have no business usin' 'em"

People aren't satisfied with their lives (okenobi and heatherkay got this right) even with the instant gratification because we are suffering from paradise syndrome. It's not the completion of life objectives such as obtaining possessions and life improvements it is the journey in which you go to obtaining them, the chase is the thrill.
Whenever I have desired something it has been the imagining of the desired items gratification as opposed to its actual gratification which was short term. But people aren’t that happy as a result of instantaneous consumption it is an addiction which developed when people started to abuse financial tools and consumption.


Well I would be tempted to also point out people who are descended from south Asian backgrounds have such a massive propensity to emulate such culture, along with listening to the music that has developed from black culture.

A big reason is among those ill informed to believe that American black culture is the perceived dominance, confidence and adrenaline that ensue from emulating such a lifestyle along with an identity.


Similar with your emo, goth, mosher, indie and “scene” identifications in youth today, generally resulting from a lack of personal identity and character along with each sect offering different identities that often are used to suit the type of person they’d be most satisfied in being. Personally I would prefer being identified as being me and based on my attributes rather than a sect that I identify and emulate.
This is nothing new however: Hippie, moshers, skinheads, new romantics, punks and mods all to do with youth identification, however a lot of those movements had ideologies and beliefs behind them.
where today I would be tempted to believe that music that comes with new movements has no meaning or tries to imitate a ideological meaning that came with music of old (the jam, iron maiden and black Sabbath among others) Plus lack basic elements of what music was ie pig squealing. It again is part of a culture in which nothing has a fight in it and my generation would rather not have to think about what they consume or have it make them think.



We’ll I can’t agree with making such change just for one case, however alarming, is not statistically significant and shows no trend and is a daily mail approach to such social issues. There are issues in Britain socially that do need fixing, we aren’t broken and we are changing probably to an atomised and self centred consumerist society. A large proportion of the younger generation are being assimilated into various ego masses that demand conformity, some dangerous (chavs and gangs) and some are not. But one prevailing characteristic is the lack of ability for many youths to form secure personal identities.

News UPDATE
I know people who work for Donny Council. It's so badly run that it'll soon be put into special measures. It couldn't organise a booze up in a brewery.

Personally I blame the lack of parenting, for which I will blame the government.

It's no longer possible to survive off one working parent's wage, both parents must work just to keep a roof over the family's head and pay the bills. The subsequent lack of parental supervision and resulting estrangement (not to mention the rise and rise of technology - e.g. kids pursuing their own interests on their own PCs/televisions and not spending time as a complete family unit) leads to children becoming detached and seeking to fill the gaps by other means.

That's my theory, anyway, and I'm not sure there's much that can be done about it. I was lucky, I had at least one parent at home at all times and they always took an active interest in my school life and social activies - many people I know did not have this kind of support and were basically given cash and told to occupy themselves (I'm sure you can imagine the results). On another note, I didn't even get my own PC until I was in my teens - and even then I was supervised in the study until I was at college.

The thing about governments is that that only care about things that can be quantified so the can brag about it. Quality of family life can't be quantified so it isn't a priority.

Both of mine worked ,I was born in the late 50's (59) we had gangs if you didnt want to get caught you ran maybe I'm still running ,Maggie said I could have it all so I got on my bike and went looking ,never liked being on the dole but always signed on when not working you need it when you work out your pension ,did I just say that [LIFTED] I must be getting old/growed up (still a big Kid according to everyone )been there done that still have no money credit card usage ,but can have a beer and takeaway when I want .

Another UPDATE

Tory pressure over Edlington torture case report

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8476965.stm

My initial thoughts are to publish as much as possible and ethical, especially since the media will always have hyped these things in the first place...

It was Thatcher who started reducing the number of social workers and probation officers, her successors have merely been too stupid and tight to do anything about it. Time and again, whenever these things happen, an overworked, demoralised and disorderly social care dept is at the heart of it.