I am thin, I choose to be thin. I still don't think fat people should pay more.

If you fancy it though feel free to send a cheque down to HM Treasury.

Why should a responsible, healthy and considerate person be penalised by the expense caused by those who do make themselves ill, cause trouble, fly-tip and other such irresponsible behaviour?

By your measure, the council tax is the most punitive tax of all. It indiscriminately punishes innocent people for the crimes of others. Income tax is little different with regards to the punitive content.

I'd like to see Council Tax abolished and replaced with a local income tax.

By your standards there should be no NHS, but rather a system whereby people pay according to how much they take out.

All services IMO should be funded by a system which takes into account people's ability to pay.

My problem is that those that are chronically beyond help recieve it: ~ 700,000 dole dossers, the super fatties, the alcoholics, drug addicts and chain smokers.

These people who wouldn't survive in a natural economy or a pre 1960s world because of thier slothing, gluttenous and acedian ways have led such groups to thier fate. This country has a record of satisfysing such individuals: the unemployed recieve money, the fatties, drugies and alchies are all treated. Nothing is done about them, if you are causing your own mess you should start to pay for it or in the case of the chronically unemployed work for it.

I've often wondered how people on Job Seeker's Allowance actually manage to live, I'm not sure I could manage on £45/week without going bankrupt in the process. Living on JSA doesn't strike me as "easy" at all. As for DLA - people who are on that can't work by definition. I couldn't in good conscience tell a disabled or chronically ill person to "go out and get a job" or work for their benefits.

As for the rest, I am loath to live in a society where we would refuse to treat someone - whatever the cause.

I've lived on benefits twice; for a few months last year and many years ago not long after leaving college. I managed quite comfortably, although any unexpected big bills can really mess you up. There's emergency loans for that sort of thing though.

Obviously you have to forgo certain luxuries such as travelling and generally going out, but JSA isn't meant to facilitate "the high life".

You have to remember that many people on JSA are also entitled to other benefits; most importantly housing, medical bills and council tax. The £45 pretty much only has to cover electric, chips, pyjamas, fags and lager.



The council tax annoys me greatly, since it's based neither on ability to pay nor cost to society. Personally, I'd be interested in a purely central funding system. The amount of money wasted in duplicated tax collection and the squabbling over what are local or national responsibilities are ridiculous.


I did not intend to infer that. I believe very strongly in a health system that is free at the point of delivery to anyone who needs it and paid for through taxation. I just think that a calculated proportion of that taxation should be raised from product which make people sick, such as refined sugars and tobacco. That way the true cost of the product is more accurately represented when you make a purchasing decision, and you may decide on a less costly healthier alternative.

Perhaps an analogy is called for. If I (food manufacturer) decided to profit by dumping toxic waste (chocolate) into the oceans (population), how would you (the NHS) feel if you were made to pay for the clean-up?

Never talked about DLA but incapacity benifit I may have touched upon with people claiming to be stressed or depressed to recieve incapacity.

My uncle lives on JSA (long term) and gets housing benifit and JSA whilst also having to pay no council tax.
Now widen the perspective a bit:
A long-term unemployed couple
Have 6 kids

They get

I haven’t even put them down for incapacity benefit! I should see what horror that brings.
How would you survive on £550.28 a week if you we’re a professional baby making unemployed person?

Well actually it is estimated that alcohol related illness costs £3 billion to the NHS every year yet the total tax gathered for alcoholic products (without VAT) is around £8.6 billion. Tobacco again brings in around £7.6 billion, and I wager it didn't cost that much to treat tobacco related illnesess. SO in the end the smokers and drunkards are helping to pay for everyone elses healthcare. Another reason to legalise and tax drugs, so the healthy moderate people can reap the rewards.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:UK_taxes.svg

I'd personally love alcohol and tobacco duty to come down to a proportionate level, because it would save me money. I don't think it should be eliminated though, and health isn't the only social cost to consider.

However, I was only using them as an analogy for the point in hand - ie the fat bloke. My plea is to increase the tax on unhealthy foods such as chocolate.

Any stats on how much poor diet costs the NHS? I suggest it's more than alcohol.

I would be in favour of a tax on chocolate, sweets and other goods that aren't consumed primarillyfor thier nitritional value but thier taste. It would mean I'd stop eating chocolate and start eating proper food in between meal, and i might finally put some weight on.

I wouldn't know about poor diets but I'd infer that it's a lot. An excellent idea I think.

But on alcohol costing the rest of society I wouldn't think it costs any more than another billion.

Some people prefer the taste of fruit and veg to chocolate and sugar, so how would you tax people according to what they like best. I really can't stand the taste of alcohol, does that mean I don't have to pay tax and excise?

You know what he means.

IIRC, you're young enough to have years left before you start to put on any serious weight in reasonable circumstances, though if you wanna start (and I don't advise it), Coca Cola's a good start

And the Coca Cola tyre's a bitch to lose, believe me

+1