Sorry, but I think that Snowden has shown us that the 'terrorists' have already won.

The papers he has release show us that we have already lost many rights and freedoms that we are supposed to be protecting and fighting for.

We have gone from American presidents saying things like 'those that give up freedom for security will not have, no do they deserve either.' To now being told we don't have, nor should we have any freedom or privacy, because we need security.

The surveillance state is out of control, and has been since 11/9. I grew up in a country with the constant threat of bombings and killings, but we had that thought in the back of our heads, but we got on with our lives, but with some vigilance for things that were out of the ordinary. We were proud that we didn't let the terrorists unduly affect our lives.

Nowadays, the country doesn't offer any privacy, either on the street or in our personal communications.

That country? The United Kingdom, more explicitly England.

When the attack on the WTC occurred, I was staying in a room on the 46th floor of a Marriott hotel, on the flight path to Frankfurt airport.

The American, German and French guests, among others quickly moved out and found smaller, non-American hotels to stay in that night. The English residents stayed in the hotel, they didn't think about moving to another hotel, the was an attitude of 'we won't let the b'stards win,' that night, as we gathered in the bar and drank in memory of those that had died that day.

Since then, I feel that they have won, and each new revelation from a Snowden releases such material about the misuse of our trust and of technology, I feel more justified in my opinion that we have already lost the war on terrorism

There's a quote from 'Atlas Shrugged' that is quite apt..

"You have destroyed all that which you held to be evil and achieved all that which you held to be good. Why, then, do you shrink in horror from the sight of the world around you? That world is not the product of your sins, it is the product and the image of your virtues."

The terrorists didn't make the world we have today. George Bush and Tony Blair and all their peers did. A world full of fear and hatred and rage. Well done.

I just posted the following at PC Pro in reply to somebody (davei) saying that he is disgusted with what people are saying about Snowden and the Guardian, and that they are weakening our fight on terrorism:


http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/383707/guar ... government

As predicted, more 'national security, putting lives at risk' BS from Team May

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23790578

I have to say I am genuinely beginning to loath that woman. The only redeeming factor is I'm not sure if they're her own ideas or she's just repeating stuff people in the 'intelligence community' are telling her.

Scotland Yard says it is examining the "highly sensitive material" after detaining David Miranda at Heathrow airport on Sunday.

An injunction limits them from looking at, copying or sharing any information except to protect national security.

Several things noteworthy about this:

1) MPs asking the Police for answers? Try asking number 10!
2) Nick Clegg writes in the Guardian today that he believes in personal liberty, which is why he fell out with the Tories over the Snooper's Charter. Well, Mr Clegg, I have news for you, it turns out you don't need the charter, GCHQ have been hoovering up all the information anyway!
3) Someone seriously needs to clip the sodding wings of MI5, MI6 and GCHQ. Trawling information en masse is not acceptable. You wouldn't let HMRC, your local bobby or your local council do it, so why do we tolerate it from this bunch of morons?