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David Miranda detention: MP asks police for explanation
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big_D
What's a life?
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:25 pm Posts: 10691 Location: Bramsche
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I just posted the following at PC Pro in reply to somebody (davei) saying that he is disgusted with what people are saying about Snowden and the Guardian, and that they are weakening our fight on terrorism:  |  |  |  | big_D wrote: Sorry, but I think that Snowden has shown us that the 'terrorists' have already won.
The papers he has release show us that we have already lost many rights and freedoms that we are supposed to be protecting and fighting for.
We have gone from American presidents saying things like 'those that give up freedom for security will not have, no do they deserve either.' To now being told we don't have, nor should we have any freedom or privacy, because we need security.
The surveillance state is out of control, and has been since 11/9. I grew up in a country with the constant threat of bombings and killings, but we had that thought in the back of our heads, but we got on with our lives, but with some vigilance for things that were out of the ordinary. We were proud that we didn't let the terrorists unduly affect our lives.
Nowadays, the country doesn't offer any privacy, either on the street or in our personal communications.
That country? The United Kingdom, more explicitly England.
When the attack on the WTC occurred, I was staying in a room on the 46th floor of a Marriott hotel, on the flight path to Frankfurt airport.
The American, German and French guests, among others quickly moved out and found smaller, non-American hotels to stay in that night. The English residents stayed in the hotel, they didn't think about moving to another hotel, the was an attitude of 'we won't let the b'stards win,' that night, as we gathered in the bar and drank in memory of those that had died that day.
Since then, I feel that they have won, and each new revelation from a Snowden releases such material about the misuse of our trust and of technology, I feel more justified in my opinion that we have already lost the war on terrorism |  |  |  |  |
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/383707/guar ... government
_________________ "Do you know what this is? Hmm? No, I can see you do not. You have that vacant look in your eyes, which says hold my head to your ear, you will hear the sea!" - Londo Molari
Executive Producer No Agenda Show 246
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Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:38 am |
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jonbwfc
What's a life?
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:26 pm Posts: 17040
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There's a quote from 'Atlas Shrugged' that is quite apt..
"You have destroyed all that which you held to be evil and achieved all that which you held to be good. Why, then, do you shrink in horror from the sight of the world around you? That world is not the product of your sins, it is the product and the image of your virtues."
The terrorists didn't make the world we have today. George Bush and Tony Blair and all their peers did. A world full of fear and hatred and rage. Well done.
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Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:22 am |
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Amnesia10
Legend
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:02 am Posts: 29240 Location: Guantanamo Bay (thanks bobbdobbs)
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More appropriate in that the Republicans take Atlas Shrugged as an idea of how to run the economy.
_________________Do concentrate, 007... "You are gifted. Mine is bordering on seven seconds." https://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTg5MzczNTkhttp://astore.amazon.co.uk/wwwx404couk-21
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Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:27 am |
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MrStevenRogers
Spends far too much time on here
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:44 pm Posts: 4860
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 |  |  |  | big_D wrote: I just posted the following at PC Pro in reply to somebody (davei) saying that he is disgusted with what people are saying about Snowden and the Guardian, and that they are weakening our fight on terrorism:  |  |  |  | big_D wrote: Sorry, but I think that Snowden has shown us that the 'terrorists' have already won.
The papers he has release show us that we have already lost many rights and freedoms that we are supposed to be protecting and fighting for.
We have gone from American presidents saying things like 'those that give up freedom for security will not have, no do they deserve either.' To now being told we don't have, nor should we have any freedom or privacy, because we need security.
The surveillance state is out of control, and has been since 11/9. I grew up in a country with the constant threat of bombings and killings, but we had that thought in the back of our heads, but we got on with our lives, but with some vigilance for things that were out of the ordinary. We were proud that we didn't let the terrorists unduly affect our lives.
Nowadays, the country doesn't offer any privacy, either on the street or in our personal communications.
That country? The United Kingdom, more explicitly England.
When the attack on the WTC occurred, I was staying in a room on the 46th floor of a Marriott hotel, on the flight path to Frankfurt airport.
The American, German and French guests, among others quickly moved out and found smaller, non-American hotels to stay in that night. The English residents stayed in the hotel, they didn't think about moving to another hotel, the was an attitude of 'we won't let the b'stards win,' that night, as we gathered in the bar and drank in memory of those that had died that day.
Since then, I feel that they have won, and each new revelation from a Snowden releases such material about the misuse of our trust and of technology, I feel more justified in my opinion that we have already lost the war on terrorism |  |  |  |  |
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/383707/guar ... government |  |  |  |  |
+1 (not very often we agree) i also believe the PCPro forum will close very soon as they have already closed the expert review forum ...
_________________ Hope this helps . . . Steve ...
Nothing known travels faster than light, except bad news ... HP Pavilion 24" AiO. Ryzen7u. 32GB/1TB M2. Windows 11 Home ...
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Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:15 am |
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pcernie
Legend
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:30 pm Posts: 45931 Location: Belfast
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As predicted, more 'national security, putting lives at risk' BS from Team May http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23790578
_________________Plain English advice on everything money, purchase and service related:
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/
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Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:25 pm |
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jonbwfc
What's a life?
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:26 pm Posts: 17040
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I have to say I am genuinely beginning to loath that woman. The only redeeming factor is I'm not sure if they're her own ideas or she's just repeating stuff people in the 'intelligence community' are telling her.
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Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:46 pm |
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pcernie
Legend
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:30 pm Posts: 45931 Location: Belfast
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I'm not sure either, but that little 'illness' interview suggests to me she hasn't got many friends... and Hague's no better when it comes to the propaganda and rhetoric.
_________________Plain English advice on everything money, purchase and service related:
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/
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Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:09 pm |
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Amnesia10
Legend
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:02 am Posts: 29240 Location: Guantanamo Bay (thanks bobbdobbs)
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They are probably spouting verbatim what the security plods are telling them. They still do not know the extent of what Snowdon knows and has copies of.
_________________Do concentrate, 007... "You are gifted. Mine is bordering on seven seconds." https://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTg5MzczNTkhttp://astore.amazon.co.uk/wwwx404couk-21
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Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:26 pm |
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pcernie
Legend
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:30 pm Posts: 45931 Location: Belfast
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23803189How do you really know what something is without opening it? And as we've discovered 'except to protect national security' covers them for most eventualities.
_________________Plain English advice on everything money, purchase and service related:
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/
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Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:35 pm |
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Amnesia10
Legend
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:02 am Posts: 29240 Location: Guantanamo Bay (thanks bobbdobbs)
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That will become an abused and mistrusted term and could allow public support for such measures to be eroded.
_________________Do concentrate, 007... "You are gifted. Mine is bordering on seven seconds." https://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTg5MzczNTkhttp://astore.amazon.co.uk/wwwx404couk-21
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Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:24 pm |
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Linux_User
I haven't seen my friends in so long
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 3:29 pm Posts: 7173
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Several things noteworthy about this: 1) MPs asking the Police for answers? Try asking number 10! 2) Nick Clegg writes in the Guardian today that he believes in personal liberty, which is why he fell out with the Tories over the Snooper's Charter. Well, Mr Clegg, I have news for you, it turns out you don't need the charter, GCHQ have been hoovering up all the information anyway! 3) Someone seriously needs to clip the sodding wings of MI5, MI6 and GCHQ. Trawling information en masse is not acceptable. You wouldn't let HMRC, your local bobby or your local council do it, so why do we tolerate it from this bunch of morons?
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Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:59 am |
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MrStevenRogers
Spends far too much time on here
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:44 pm Posts: 4860
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 |  |  |  | Linux_User wrote: Several things noteworthy about this: 1) MPs asking the Police for answers? Try asking number 10! 2) Nick Clegg writes in the Guardian today that he believes in personal liberty, which is why he fell out with the Tories over the Snooper's Charter. Well, Mr Clegg, I have news for you, it turns out you don't need the charter, GCHQ have been hoovering up all the information anyway! 3) Someone seriously needs to clip the sodding wings of MI5, MI6 and GCHQ. Trawling information en masse is not acceptable. You wouldn't let HMRC, your local bobby or your local council do it, so why do we tolerate it from this bunch of morons? |  |  |  |  |
because of a one way special relationship ... ps. unsure about local councils as they seem to have more powers available to them then GCHQ ...
_________________ Hope this helps . . . Steve ...
Nothing known travels faster than light, except bad news ... HP Pavilion 24" AiO. Ryzen7u. 32GB/1TB M2. Windows 11 Home ...
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Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:48 am |
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Amnesia10
Legend
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:02 am Posts: 29240 Location: Guantanamo Bay (thanks bobbdobbs)
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The problem is that who are the terrorists? The government think it is all of us, because we will vote as many of them out of office as possible next time. The risks to you and I from a terrorist incident are exceptionally low. Yes the Lee Rigby incident was appalling but that was carried out by people that the security specialists were trying to turn. Clearly they are doing a lousy job.
I am probably more likely to be killed by a vending machine than in a terrorist incident. When are we going to start this war against vending machines?
_________________Do concentrate, 007... "You are gifted. Mine is bordering on seven seconds." https://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTg5MzczNTkhttp://astore.amazon.co.uk/wwwx404couk-21
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Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:06 pm |
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